Would love to see a full time non-wing class. If track commits to a full schedule, I would definitely consider running.

yes we would be interested

The setup differences... I changed all 4 bars, both Rt offsets, stagger, and still could have done more to get the car where I want it.

It wouldn't align to the Cali classes, but I think a wingless "A Class" would be the right fit for Deming's weekly folks. Would fit nicely between 600R and Multi. Low cost option for 600r guys to move up to- Pull the wings & plates. Low cost option for the 600open guys who would prefer NOT to chase a full multi class, but can't come close to the 600R weight. I see this as a way to pull a few cars from each class, so you don't have an impact on overall car count.

Derek Holmwood wrote:

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Why cant we run 1 car wingless and winged and just pay 2 separate entries? I cant think of more than 4 guys that can afford 2 cars and if thats the case were just going to reduce the 600 winged classes to start another. If we allow guys to run the same car in both classes, the entry for both classes would be a lot better and guys wont have to make a decision to do one or the other.

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All valid questions.  At the meeting Paul mentioned the possibility of having a non-wing class at Clay Cup if he were to find a sponsor for the purse.  He made it very clear that you would not be able to run 1 car in both classes and I think he is basing that on exactly the type of things that Mr. Turner pointed out.

As you know we attempted non-wing races last season with little success and I think primarily because, unfortunately, many have a difficult time making the adjustment between the two out on the track.  I saw a ton of wrecks last year because people went into the corner without a wing on their car as if they had a wing on it. 

The point would be to have a class of cars with drivers/racers that were comitted to their class and were set-up to run their particular class, not just making a few quick half ass changes and going out there to run.

Also, last year we had 50 cars run in the 600 class and nearly 30 cars on most nights.  The 600 restricted class had an extremely high car count as well.  I don't think creating a non-wing class would bankrupt either the 600 or the 600 restricted classes.

Most of this may be besides the point.  At the meeting the idea was presented about having a full-time 600 non-wing class.  As the club president I would like to know how the members feel and if we would have enough support to take the idea to Paul and be able to give him some solid feedback with real numbers so he can make an informed business decision.

 

-- Edited by ksmauck on Friday 7th of January 2011 08:50:56 PM

ksmauck wrote:

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Derek Holmwood wrote:

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Why cant we run 1 car wingless and winged and just pay 2 separate entries? I cant think of more than 4 guys that can afford 2 cars and if thats the case were just going to reduce the 600 winged classes to start another. If we allow guys to run the same car in both classes, the entry for both classes would be a lot better and guys wont have to make a decision to do one or the other.

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All valid questions.  At the meeting Paul mentioned the possibility of having a non-wing class at Clay Cup if he were to find a sponsor for the purse.  He made it very clear that you would not be able to run 1 car in both classes and I think he is basing that on exactly the type of things that Mr. Turner pointed out.

As you know we attempted non-wing races last season with little success and I think primarily because, unfortunately, many have a difficult time making the adjustment between the two out on the track.  I saw a ton of wrecks last year because people went into the corner without a wing on their car as if they had a wing on it. 

The point would be to have a class of cars with drivers/racers that were comitted to their class and were set-up to run their particular class, not just making a few quick half ass changes and going out there to run.

Also, last year we had 50 cars run in the 600 class and nearly 30 cars on most nights.  The 600 restricted class had an extremely high car count as well.  I don't think creating a non-wing class would bankrupt either the 600 or the 600 restricted classes.

Most of this may be besides the point.  At the meeting the idea was presented about having a full-time 600 non-wing class.  As the club president I would like to know how the members feel and if we would have enough support to take the idea to Paul and be able to give him some solid feedback with real numbers so he can make an informed business decision.

 

-- Edited by ksmauck on Friday 7th of January 2011 08:50:56 PM

 

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With any new situation whether it be a new track or a new car or a new class there is a learning curve and a grace period.... It was noticeable on the non wing dates because it was 10 or 15 drivers learning to drive without a wing rather then just 1 or 2 rookies learning to drive with the wing on because most have driven with a wing before therefore having a long show due to multiple yellows and reds... Pulling the plug on the non wing races last year and I think the year before? after 2 races did not let the drivers learn or adapt to it... You have to let it build and the drivers mature and then can have the best racing around... I personally think the 2 non wing nights we had last year we had the nicest track of the year slick from the bottom to the top put that together with winged cars on the same night and you would definately bring alot more excitement especially in the northwest where there isnt any non wing action...

 

Thanks for the input Derek and I will pass it on when I approach Paul about this topic. 

I can't debate his rationale behind the 1 car 1 class philosophy entirely other than to say he wants to have competitive racing in every class that is enjoyable to watch from the fans perspective and as safe as possible for the racers.

I do not believe the concern is that nobody can make the adjustments between a wing and non wing car between races but that many people can't make the adjustments (and I'm talking about both to their car and mentally) hit the track and be competitive. 

Last year we had several programmed non-wing events, as you know.  We quickly did away with those as Cam pointed out.  Primarily the reason for doing so is that the racing was pathetic from the fans perspective and fans began to leave because they got sick and tired of watching yellow after yellow followed by red flag after red flag and primarily due to the fact that people were driving into the corner like they still had a wing on their car. 

I think Paul would count on the fact that most people can't and/or wouldn't put two cars on the track (wing and non-wing) and instead would hope racers would focus on one class and being competitive in that class by setting up their car properly and constantly being mentally in tuned with the style of racing. 

-- Edited by ksmauck on Friday 7th of January 2011 11:31:37 PM

I would run non-wing everyweek also.

I think sleepy has the right idea. With the rule change that is makeing the wing class a lot more expensive we need a class inbetween. A non-wing class with engine rules going back to stock engines so you could move up from restricted class would make alot of sense.

Based upon these posts it looks like we would only have 6 cars interested in running a weekly non-wing schedule if you were only able to run 1 car in each class.

I know there are a lot of people who do not get on here so if you are aware of anyone else please let me know otherwise I find it hard to believe that Paul would even consider this.

Here is some rules that I came up with, I think they would work pretty well. What does everyone else think?

 

1.1   Engine: Stock 600cc, stock carbs. Injected with power commander allowed with alcohol. No Flat slide carbs, Stock throttle bodies allowed, Cam gears that are slotted, redrilled or altered are illegal. Internal charging system components must remain in motor. Stock appearing ignition. No porting, polishing or milling of heads. No milling of block. Billet Boots allowed. No Titanium internal parts (Unless Stock on engine production). No forced Induction (Turbo, Supercharging, ect.) Must have transmission with all stock gears in working order. In-car adjustments allowed.

1.2   Weight Limit: 725lbs (Stock), 750 (Open Head formerly Deming 2010 rules), 775 (Multi) with driver

1.3   Tire rule: Right rear 38 or harder American Racer or equivalent Hoosier.

 

-- Edited by MPH Racing on Sunday 9th of January 2011 05:29:05 PM

-- Edited by MPH Racing on Sunday 9th of January 2011 05:39:02 PM

Your correct Doug.  You can run 2 cars but not 1 in both classes was the idea.

Hey Devo the 5 race thing is completely seperate from what were talking about here. 

Paul mentioned at the meeting the possibility of adding a non-wing event to the Clay Cup Nationals this year.  Initially he said 1 car per class.  He might be changing his mind on that.

A member or two at the meeting expanded on the idea of adding it to clay cup and making a non-wing class for a weekly show at Deming.  This wasn't Paul's idea but there has been club interest in a non-wing class hence the reason for the questions and soliciting of input.